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Two Chaps - Many Cultures
Global Business Excellence Through Cultural and Emotional Intelligence (ICE-Q)
Welcome to ๐๐ฌ๐ค ๐พ๐๐๐ฅ๐จ โ ๐๐๐ฃ๐ฎ ๐พ๐ช๐ก๐ฉ๐ช๐ง๐๐จ. We help you navigate the business of culture and the culture of business. Christian Hรถferle and Brett Parry ponder many topics related to culture through a combination of short bursts and deep dives.
We feature guests from the world of business and personal development, speaking about their experiences developing a combination of Cultural Intelligence (CQ) and Emotional Intelligence (EQ), as well as it's vital importance to successful global organizations.
It's not only about culture. There are also tips and strategies for creating abundance in your professional and personal life.
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Two Chaps - Many Cultures
Costly Mistakes: How To Get The Best For What You Paid For in Cultural Training
When you are in the market for services or products, price will only be a concern in the absence of value. The same is true for cultural training, coaching, and consulting services. In this episode, we'll dive into the sometimes overlooked truth that opting for lower rates in cultural training can result in subpar outcomes. We'll explore why quality cultural training is an investment that pays off, especially in global business environments where understanding cultural nuances is crucial. Cheap services might seem like a good deal at first, but they often lack the depth, expertise, and tailored approach necessary to create meaningful and lasting change. Tune in as we discuss how to evaluate the true value of cultural training services and why the adage "you get what you pay for" rings especially true in this field.
๐๐ฌ๐ค ๐พ๐๐๐ฅ๐จ โ ๐๐๐ฃ๐ฎ ๐พ๐ช๐ก๐ฉ๐ช๐ง๐๐จ is the worldโs #1 show on the business of culture and the culture of business. Christian Hรถferle and Brett Parry ponder culture in short bursts and deep dives, featuring your questions and comments related to culture, business, and personal growth.
Be sure to check out and subscribe to our YouTube channel for even more great content: https://www.youtube.com/@TwoChapsManyCultures
Visit https://theculturemastery.com/ for more information about the skills for working in a global context.
The music on this episode is provided courtesy of Sepalot.
โDuum Diipโ - Artist: Sepalot - Label: Eskapaden - Copyright control
So you're in the market for cultural training and you look at all those different vendors and you think you're getting a really good deal because, darn it, they gave you some rock-bottom price. Careful, what you wish for, let's talk about how too cheap might be not what you're looking for.
Speaker 2:Welcome to 2Chap. Many Cultures. In an increasingly globally connected world, it is vital to possess the essential skills of cultural intelligence. Listen along as we present the topics, tips and strategies you can use to develop the power of cultural understanding in your personal and professional life. Here are your hosts Christian Huffala and.
Speaker 3:Brett Parry. Welcome back to Two Chaps Many Cultures where too much culture is barely enough, and we are talking about the business of culture and the culture of business. And as all businesses go, some businesses, actually all businesses come through a period of time where they become price sensitive, and we're not sensitive enough to leave this topic alone. We're going to tackle it and before we do that, we're going to ask you to subscribe. Hit that bell and follow along, be part of the conversation, as always. Give us your thoughts on what we're talking about today. And what we're talking about today is cheap and nasty deals and duds, those kind of things. You know where it applies to all the parts of our life where we always want to get a good price, a good deal. But what you get for those deals and the price you pay for it may influence the results you get.
Speaker 1:As one of my father's friends who drove a very flashy, expensive car once said and I overheard this as a kid and he said you know what? I cannot afford to drive a cheap vehicle. And I didn't understand at the time until my dad then took me aside and said what he meant was cheap vehicles fall apart easily and they need a lot of repair and they're not very reliable. So this guy was rather investing in a more pricey form of transportation and he had the peace of mind that the car would always work and take him wherever he needed to go. So, car metaphors aside, you get what you pay for right.
Speaker 1:And if you are budget conscious because of current market situations, market developments, we understand it that you will search for the best deal you can get. After all, most of us operate in a somewhat capitalist free market environment and price only becomes an issue in the absence of value and we look for what is best for us. And if you are a company shopping for cultural training and price is important to you, then we still applaud you, because that means you didn't rule out cultural training from the service lines you're offering to your team members, so you still see the value in it. You just may be in a pinch for a little bit, and we respect that. I don't know, brett, how much flexibility you give your clients in the pricing. In our company we do our best to work with our client situations and we don't always charge the same prices for the same companies, depending on what the content construct is, what the market scenario is. So we can be flexible, but there are limits.
Speaker 3:Of course, and I think the approach is I've always found the approach is a menu approach, so that you obviously have a certain set of value items that are included in your offering, and so people can kind of have the full a la carte experience. And if you give them all of that up front, then it's up to them. Rather than discount what we're doing, we say we can certainly make it more inexpensive, it's just what you're getting will be less and that's okay too. You're still going to get the value. That's's the important thing. We're talking about value and price as two separate things.
Speaker 3:I always use the analogy of my time doing music. Of course you have to make the case from an approach where you've had an experience of learning your craft, learning music, learning how to sing, train your voice, play your instruments, all of those kind of things. When somebody approaches you with an offer to go and play in their bar or something like that, they sometimes just think they're paying you for the two or three hours that you're playing. But there is a. You know, both Christian and I have gone through intentional approaches to our education, our background, just as everybody in our industry has Really really caring people. This is an industry that brings with it a duty of care. So to do that and deliver the right amount, the good amount of value, we take it upon ourselves to do courses. You can see I've got some certificates behind me. It doesn't mean I want to make myself look smart, it makes me just kind of show people that I've gone and I've actually educated myself to come with that duty of care.
Speaker 1:Now, why are we talking about this? Why is this important all of a sudden? Well, it's been important in our industry for a while and I've had, and Brett and I independently had conversations with potential customers with some competitors in the field as well, on where the value is, where is the sweet spot in the market. And turns out there is a lot of business done in our field at prices that I will not be able to offer to clients and I have told clients no. Because of that, politely and with all the love I can muster for them, asking for that level of pricing, I said I cannot afford to send somebody to you doing the work who is willing to accept this little money, because you will inevitably end up being underserved. We will not do your people good, we will not serve you well enough. And is price always an indicator of the level of quality you receive?
Speaker 1:No it's not. And yet I've seen companies out in the field. I'm not bad-mouthing competitors, that's not what we're doing, but we've seen prices in the field that are not sustainable and they some companies do this because they are catching huge volume contracts with clients and they make it up in the volume. It usually ends up cultural facilitators, trainers, coaches being underpaid and that is, I think, a shame, and that in my business. I don't want that. I've been underpaid in the early days of my career. I don't want the trainers, facilitators, coaches that work with us, with the Culture Mastery or with your, your company, brett. I don't want them to have a bad taste in their mouth after they work with us. I want them to be fairly compensated of course this comes.
Speaker 3:what comes into play here is when you are actually sourcing out vendors. You're having discussions with vendors. I mean, what are some of the ways you could some set off some red flags? Uh, this may sound a little strange, but I think the most confident people that are just throwing stuff at you and say we can do anything right, we can deliver everything and we can do it at such a cheap price, I mean I'm a little wary of those people If people are not coming to you from this field with a sense of humility, with saying that we believe in our knowledge but we know that we don't know it all, and with a price that is reflective of the value that they're going to bring, understanding that they may have to search out.
Speaker 3:I say to my clients all the time you can ask me any question you want to. I think by now I'm pretty good and Christian's the same at answering most of those questions in real time. But if we don't know it, we've got to be humble enough to say we don't know it, and that's value too. That's where I see that as a value. If somebody is just saying just don't worry about it, just give us your couple of bucks and we'll do everything you want.
Speaker 1:it's usually a red flag I would agree, and it's interesting because in my in all these years I've been working in this field, I talk to other corporate trainers, to facilitators, who do small, large groups, whatever it is, and who are not in the cultural training field per se. Maybe they're in leadership development, maybe they are, I don't know, any type of, I would say, corporate learning and development professional. The day rates or hourly rates that they ask in fields outside of the cultural intelligence world sometimes surprise me because they're substantially higher than the average market rates in the cultural training field. Which made me wonder is one learning and development field more valuable than another? Is teaching your team members, your employees, the people in your organization that you want to be successful in a global context? Are these skills comparably more valuable or not? I would say they're not. I think cultural training is just as important and relevant as certain leadership skills, certain quote-unquote subject matter hard skills.
Speaker 1:Over the years, when it became such a ubiquitous thing to do in the boom years of the early 2000s, to invest in expatriate training and intercultural communication training that there was enough competition to keep those rates down. And now, in recent years, we've seen market contractions. The prices haven't kept up with neither inflation nor the market overall. So I'm a bit weary when companies, just like you said, come in and say well, we can do it all and we can do it for this price and it's all going to be fine and dandy and you will be happy, I'm probably not surprising you when I say, no, you won't be happy. You will kick yourself for going down the pricing route.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying every cheap program is bad quality. That's not what we're saying. But price is not the main indicator for the value you will receive. So it doesn't mean that the most pricey programs will be the best ones either. Just be mindful of how your vendors are structuring their programs, what they are pricing for what reasons. Let them explain in full transparency why it is supposed to cost this or that much. There's usually a reasoning behind it, and if your vendor can't give you that reasoning, walk away.
Speaker 3:Well, the clients that we work with that are supplying destination cultural training. This is one-on-one with a family. That can be actually quite at a premium because you really got one facilitator with one person and by its very nature. But I want to suggest also, if you're thinking about this, don't just think about the person that's on the receiving end of that, because what you're giving that person, that executive, she may be going into an environment where what you teach her she's able to pass on to other team members. So think of the multiplication of this information that you're giving. If that helps you rationalise a premium cost for an executive who's going into a host country that needs that extra context. That's going to need that understand their communication skills, their leadership skills, how they're going to get credibility but also to be able to pass it on to the team and, writ large, it's going to affect the performance of the team that she works with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but, brett, there's all these apps and they can learn from on the go, and I don't need a facilitator with a warm pulse in the room if they can learn virtually, with an asynchronous platform, and those cost only a fraction of what you're charging me. So explain those prices.
Speaker 3:Sure, well, I can. Actually, my experience with Duolingo might be a good thing to bring up, because, you know, I've tried to reinforce my Polish skills with the Duolingo and I like the gamification of it, but I've kind of realized I've hit a point where it. But I've kind of realized I've hit a point where it's really not serving me from a personal point of view. And what am I talking about there? Well, I operate in a different modality than, say, christian or somebody else who might be learning that language, and my modality, I know, is more relationship focused. So I want I probably feel now I want to really stop on Duolingo and re-engage with the day-to-day conversations. Obviously, I get to do that every day with my family, but to me it was a realization that this learning style had kind of run its course right. It was good, fun, there was gamification in it.
Speaker 3:However, if you think about that kind of online apps and that kind of thing, that's a one-size-fits-all right and that's fine. It's good for initial. But in our experience and we know this because we're in the training room with people all the time we have to think on our feet. We have to observe the communication style, the learning style of the people that we're engaged with and we also have to listen intently for the things between the lines that they're asking us and be able to do that. An app can't do that. As good as we think AI is going to be, this is a truly human endeavor and we sit amongst people where it gets very emotional, it gets very personal. An app can't do that.
Speaker 1:And it gets very granular too, and the situations that each program participant shares with us is a nuance different from the one that we had in the training before, and the the scenarios that our program participants share with us are human interactions between individuals, and they are all different. So, no, no critical incident scenario is ever the same. And, yes, ai is getting better and it's doing its job in harvesting data and information that has already been pre-produced. Now, what the human intelligence does, what a live trainer does with your employees, with you, with you, if you, the participant is being situationally aware of what's going on in your world and how to help you work through your intercultural challenges on the fly and I'm sorry, I haven't seen an eye do that yet- yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:And so I think, if you're in the market for cultural training and you are assessing vendors and you're having conversations with people, you're obviously not your first time around the block in talking to those people. But listen a little bit more intently. And, yes, the pricing is going to be a consideration, of course. Consideration of course, but the way that you have conversations, by the way, we've actually been called in. Where the cheap approach has not worked, we've had to come and fix and it's not that we're poo-pooing what's been come before us. They've, probably with all the best intentions in the world, tried to deliver something that is of quality, um, and it's got nothing to do with the people that are doing it. It could be just the style, it could be just the approach, it could be miscommunication. In terms of that, what we're talking about the initial conversations, the, the fact finding part of the mission right to find out what is really needed. Uh, again, those conversations that christian and I have have with customers. I guess it becomes a mini training in and of itself, wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 2:mate.
Speaker 3:You have to kind of like take them through some of this process.
Speaker 1:Yes, we do, and I happily do so, and sometimes, when there is a bit of a resistance, I am not shy to make bold comparisons right. So if you, as the organization scouring the market for the best provider for your cultural intelligence training in your organization, obviously you're going to kick the tires on multiple offerings and that's you do. Diligence that I would expect of you and I also would expect that you see your own organization whatever it is you do or produce, or the widget or service or product that you provide that you have ideally a high opinion of the quality of product service that you provide to your clients. So if you're driving a premium vehicle and you're kicking tires on vendors, you're not going to put discount tires on your premium vehicle, would you? But sometimes people do, they get cheap on the wrong end and the outcome is not necessarily what they expected or what they were hoping for.
Speaker 3:They're doing their own people a disservice yeah, you could end up sliding off the road, just to follow that metaphor.
Speaker 1:Not having enough traction moving forward, that's right.
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. Think about your interactions, think about how you've approached your sourcing of the cultural training in the past or any, I guess, any type of coaching, any type of leadership development, talent development that you've done in the past. You know, just a reminder, a gentle reminder, from us who are in the room with these people and we see the outcomes and effects that it has. And I guess the gratitude, the appreciation when we work with people we get a lot of people that share appreciation with us that they themselves didn't know really what to expect when it came to cultural training or cultural intelligence, leadership development, talent development. And when the magic happens in the room, and you know, I'm very grateful that people share those positive, that positive feedback with us. Obviously the people that source it are not always in the room to hear that we try and kind of send that feedback to those people.
Speaker 3:But just think about that. You know, put yourself in the shoes. You know, put yourself in the shoes of the international assignee or the person who's just landed in a multicultural environment and kind of feels a little bit discombobulated in terms of their own self-awareness and what they're observing. And you know, think again about the people. It is a people business and you know the premium comes in taking care of them. And the question is you know what is an appropriate amount of money you're willing to spend on supporting the very best of your people and their development?
Speaker 1:And allow me to rephrase that You're not spending on your people. You're investing in their development and you're investing in their abilities to perform at the level that serves your company and improves your profitability. So in a free market, what goes around comes around, absolutely.
Speaker 3:That's a good song. What Goes Around Comes Around.
Speaker 1:Are you going to sing it for us? No, no, not this time.
Speaker 3:It's a Friday afternoon and, by the way, you'd have to pay for that, because I've spent years and years training my voice and I'm not going to give it away for free. Thank you, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3:I'm being facetious, years training my voice and I'm not going to give it away for free. Thank you, I appreciate it. I'm being facetious, of course, um, but please again, uh, follow along, uh, subscribe to the channel youtube channel, the two chaps youtube channel or the podcast on the many platforms now available on iheart radio I keep saying that because we're on radio which which we've got good heads for and subscribe, follow along and join the conversation. Tell us what's your experience, what's been your experience? Have you found a solution that's been really cheap, that's worked great and over your expectations? We would love to hear those examples, if there are out there. Sometimes there are, but maybe not. We see the opposite many times. So, good to see you again, my friend, for another week. Another episode in the can, where too much culture is barely enough, and, yeah, any big plans for the weekend, my friend.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be a big spender. Of course I'm not going to be cheap this weekend. I'm investing in myself.
Speaker 3:Oh good, that's an important thing. Excellent, all right, that's it. Take care, my friend. All right, see you, mate. Bye for now. Bye.