Two Chaps - Many Cultures

The Hidden Power of Curiosity in Cross-Cultural Competence and Understanding

• Christian Höferle and Brett Parry • Season 2 • Episode 14

Share episode

Curiosity killed the cat? More like curiosity kept it alive! Join us on this lively episode of "Two Chaps. Many Cultures," where we passionately argue that curiosity is the lifeline for culturally aware individuals. From debunking this age-old myth with personal anecdotes to exploring its immense power in fostering cultural intelligence, we make a case for why curiosity is essential. Listen as we share how our own inquisitiveness has enriched both our personal and professional lives, and how curiosity—or the lack of it—can make or break cross-cultural interactions. By embracing curiosity, we unlock invaluable insights and cultivate deeper connections in our interconnected world.

Tune in to "Two Chaps. Many Cultures," where we firmly believe too much culture is barely enough. Stay curious, folks!

𝙏𝙬𝙤 𝘾𝙝𝙖𝙥𝙨 – 𝙈𝙖𝙣𝙮 𝘾𝙪𝙡𝙩𝙪𝙧𝙚𝙨 is the world’s #1 show on the business of culture and the culture of business. Christian Höferle and Brett Parry ponder culture in short bursts and deep dives, featuring your questions and comments related to culture, business, and personal growth.

Be sure to check out and subscribe to our YouTube channel for even more great content: https://www.youtube.com/@TwoChapsManyCultures

Visit https://theculturemastery.com/ for more information about the skills for working in a global context.

The music on this episode is provided courtesy of Sepalot.
“Duum Diip” - Artist: Sepalot - Label: Eskapaden - Copyright control



Speaker 1:

But the danger of getting a whole bunch of hate mail about this. What I'm about to say curiosity, didn't kill the cat. Cats don't give a crap what you do, they go about their life. They don't have owners, they have staff. That's kind of my attitude to cats. I love cats, don't get me wrong. But are they really curious? Is curiosity going to kill them? I argue not, because, again, they may have random little attention spans, but are they truly curious? Are they intentional about understanding the love they might share for their owners or other cats? I argue not. So let's think about how does that kind of tie into today's topic? We argue that culture, or lack of understanding of culture, may be the very thing that might kill possibility and interactions. So we're going to chat about that. Welcome to Two Chaps. Many Cultures. In an increasingly globally connected world, it is vital to possess the essential skills of cultural intelligence.

Speaker 2:

Listen along as we present the topics, tips and strategies you can use to develop the power of cultural understanding in your personal and professional life.

Speaker 1:

Here are your hosts Christian Huffala and Brett Parry.

Speaker 2:

Meow. Welcome back, feline lovers. Yet another episode of Two Cats, many Cultures. Oh no, two Chaps, many Cultures. These two cats going wild over the culture stuff. This is Two Chaps, many Cultures, the weekly show about the business of culture and the culture of business, the number one show globally on that topic. Only here, and if you're curious, ring that bell, subscribe to the channel. Never miss an update. Watch all the past episodes in the archive and there are quite a few if you're curious and you're willing to dig.

Speaker 2:

So enough with the catty nonsense. What are we going to talk about today? We're going to talk about curiosity. No, it's not killing the cat. Curiosity, or rather lack thereof, is what's going to ruin your global professional endeavors, because if you're not curious, what else you got to work with? Bloody nothing. Yes, we're going to get some hate mail and comments. Yes, we're being too abrasive. Christian the German is being super direct again and so brash. Yeah, that's who I am, but I am also curious how you will respond to that, because we're trying to trigger or needle you a little bit about this, because unless you are curious about your environment in which you're operating, you're not going to learn anything new. And isn't that what cultural competence. At least part of it is about Brett.

Speaker 1:

Well, I've certainly discovered that I probably was guilty when I was growing up of not being as curious as I probably should have been. But now that I'm living outside of my culture and I'm married to somebody that's not from my culture and I get to hang out with not only clients but friends and family even people in my family came from different cultures and they've explained a lot about what they do and how they do it and what makes them do it. So I probably should have been a little bit more competent back then. Even in business, when I employed people from different backgrounds, I probably took advantage or took it for granted just what they bought with them and didn't value it as much as I did so in a serious tone.

Speaker 1:

Yes, uh, we'll take all the hate mail about the hate for cats, but we will. We will certainly stand on our own on the courage of our convictions. Anyway, christian and I share of the deep curiosity about people. We were talking in the green room. We've got to call it the green room now. It's kind of our color it is green.

Speaker 1:

It is green. We were talking about this in terms of what we share. When we are traveling around, we observe the world, we observe people. I was saying, sitting in a, nothing better for me than to sit in an airport lounge and watch the human condition pass by and I'm constantly making stories up in my brain about, uh, what they're, where people are going, where they come from, what languages they speak, and, of course, all of these things are through the eyes of just watching the physical exterior of people. But I don't. I've had the most wonderful conversations with people when I've struck up a chat here and there and realize that this person speaks five languages you know, or they've lived in five different countries, and then we build an affinity right. And that curiosity, I argue, would be the key component as to where it's got me today and how I get to do this work, or Chris and I get to do this work. Is that curiosity is driven by a real, unquenchable thirst for new knowledge?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I'm willing to die on that hill, that I'm saying, yeah, without curiosity, I ain't got nothing going for you, got nothing going for you, and I will throw you that ball of wool down that hill so you can play with it. My, my, my little cat dying of here now. Here. Here's what triggered this, when when you said, um, you, you enjoy observing and watching the human condition and I know this may be super subjective, because both of us, you and I, would probably lean more on the extrovert end of the spectrum and it is rather easy for you and I to approach complete strangers because we feel that's an okay behavior. And I have family members, I have friends who would rather, would rather, hide under under three blankets before they started doing that. My children will tell you that it is cringe worthy how I approach complete strangers in public and ask questions and my, my youngest daughter goes like dad's doing it again. We're not going to get out of here for another hour because he just struck up a conversation with a complete stranger. We could have long been outside of this store already. No, but he has to talk to them. So I get that Not everybody is is that way and maybe I'm just weird in that in that sense, but nothing new ever happened in humanity or human history. Without questioning the status quo, I want to say it is an einstein quote that you, if you want progress, you need to keep questioning everything.

Speaker 2:

Now again, I understand that some people have a hard time doing that and I would argue that we are to a certain degree, a product of our own system and we are a product of our Western industrialized educational system, where we learn to comply and to obey. Obedience very often comes from moral, religious structures. Very often, whether it's in the Christian, muslim, jewish, buddhist, whatever world religion world, there is always a degree of obedience to the higher power. And in industrialized nations the school system wants to produce graduates and we want to shape them in a certain form. It's usually a standardized way of educating us to compliance and to follow the rules and not draw with the crayons outside of the lines.

Speaker 2:

I know this might be a contentious deduction here, but this is the opposite of being curious, right? That curiosity is that we are being taught not to be too curious, because if we ask too many questions, somebody who is in a position of authority, who is our elder, may not have the answer and that would make them rather uncomfortable. So curiosity we try to press it down a little bit and yet nothing. We will learn nothing, we will not be able to absorb new information if we don't have that curiosity. That's why I'm saying, without curiosity, we don't have anything to work with.

Speaker 1:

And we've talked to guests we've discussed this before in previous episodes about this is where art comes in and creativity, the practice of making something. That is, whether it be music, whether it be art, whether it be any kind of creative pursuit. Seth Godin talked about this in his talk about education that nobody asks people to make a new canvas, nobody asks people to make a new music. People just do it because they're intentionally curious about what will be the outcome. But again, you know, we might think about. I've talked about the concept of watching other people and watching the human condition. However, I think that really, my curiosity was then even more peaked when I learned the importance of understanding myself, like being deeply curious about where I came from, how that makes me turn up as a business leader, how it makes me turn up as a husband, as a friend, as a business partner. So that's an important part, right too?

Speaker 2:

as a business partner. So that's an important part, right too? Yeah, I agree, and I think we are. And I go back to conditioning.

Speaker 2:

I think we are often conditioned to perform right, to know something or be competent in something, especially if we work in a kind of a corporate setting or a professional setting, and arguably most of the people who watch us rant about stuff like this do work in some sort of global context. So if you're watching this, you probably work in a global environment. Your job is to perform, to know something, to have subject matter expertise in what you do and do not what you do best. Fantastic. So we're conditioned to know. We're conditioned to give information to be interesting to others. We're not necessarily conditioned to be interested in other things and other people in new information.

Speaker 2:

So asking questions could give us the feeling that we sound stupid. By asking a question, oh, we don't know something. Well, aren't we supposed to know everything Because we've reached that level of hierarchy or competency or responsibility in our organization and now I'm asking questions. Does that make me look stupid? I argue it doesn't. I think the humble inquiry is how you actually get people to perform at the highest level, and I'm sure I'm putting my coaching hat on when I say this Telling people to do something will always create some sort of resistance. Asking them how they would like to complete the task will inspire, ideally, or invite, new ways of completing the task that I would have probably not thought of had I not asked that question. So without that curiosity, I will always be stuck in my mode of operating.

Speaker 1:

I start out all again with the coaching hat or the training hat or the mentoring hat, whatever it is. I start out with telling people like listen, this is not a lecture. First of all, I'm not smart enough to be a lecturer and certainly not I bring humility. That's kind of a of a cultural thing. Of course we have to think about culture as a reflection of the people that show up. I think me. I just prefer to ask and tell people, make it clear. You know it's a conversation.

Speaker 1:

This is a two-way intentional conversation of me having to understand me, first, where I come from, then you inviting you, and then, when you tell me that I listen, like Christian's saying, I am listening with the intent to understand and not to respond. You know it's difficult for all of us to do that. Our brain, if we're operating in a very fast-paced environment, is taught to kind of react and maybe argue. You know, especially because Christian and I are in the US environment here. This is even the legal system here is an adversarial system by its very name. It's called that and it's meant to be, and this culture promotes that because that is seen as a necessary part of an interaction. However, other cultures are more kind of softly developed in terms of relationships and things like that. So I think this is the important part always understanding the cultural aspect.

Speaker 2:

And very often leaders in certain cultures are more hierarchical. Cultures are expected to have the answers right and, as a leader in such a culture, to be the inquisitive part and admitting that she or he doesn't know everything might make them look weak and that therefore it might be discouraged to be or to display that level of curiosity. But there's other ways to be curious to let uh to, to invite new information. Um, you mentioned seth godin earlier. Who who talks about in I think it was a TED Talk or in one of his speeches about this how our Western society has put limitations on our creativity and that we focus more on numbers and data and spreadsheets and compliance rather than the arts and free thought, rather than the arts and free thought. There's another very fascinating, probably 10, 12 year old talk by what's his name? I should have remembered that name now that I'm talking about it. Sir Ken Robinson is his name, an English educator who says curiosity is the engine of achievement, right? So without being curious, we won't achieve anything, because we will always be stuck in the status quo. And how we can ask or how we can show curiosity without violating some of these cultural norms in certain contexts is maybe showing curiosity outside of work, right? You could ask, or you could show curiosity in, what would happen if I did this outside of the workspace. How would this show up in a social setting, right? Or you could ask someone that, or begin a conversation with, letting them know that you are aware that they're more than the job function that they're serving in this organization. I see you're a human being outside of this, so tell me more about that, right? So that would be curiosity that does not diminish your subject matter competency within, within your professional framework, right? However you approach this, you, I think it's, it's a continued self-aware practice to show that curiosity.

Speaker 2:

And, and I don't know about you, but I've been told by mentors or by people that I consider to be teachers when I started out in this field, that certain questions are better not asked in certain cultural contexts, that there is what we refer to as quote-unquote taboos, topics that may or may not be off-limits, and, sure, there are these conversation pieces or there are these life scenarios where we want to stay away from certain things. And I keep coming back to advice from a gentleman that we had on this program many, many moons ago, pellegrino Riccardi, who I attribute that phrase to him that no question is ever off limits, no level of curiosity is ever taboo If it comes from a place of genuine, humble curiosity. So I think the, the, the turning point, or the, the, the tipping point in in curiosity, could easily be there, across cultures, where we violate the calling in of information mindset and instead present ourselves in a hey, what are you doing and why the hell are you doing it this way and already inflicting some degree of judgment in the questioning, some degree of judgment in the questioning right? So walking that line is maybe not intuitive to all of us, so that's a continued practice and that's what we work through with our clients as they embark on this adventure of working in a new cultural context or new to them.

Speaker 2:

That being curious doesn't necessarily mean that you are judgmental or that you're drawing other people's behavior into question. No, you are questioning your own, quote-unquote normal. How does my preset behavior, how does that align with yours? And is one right or one wrong? No, probably not. But how can we create commonality in this scenario? How do we find a way that's good for both of us? And without curiosity, that's hard to figure out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and may I suggest that just what you've described there means it's a very nuanced approach. It takes some deft skill to understand the situation you're in and what's appropriate and how to question and how to be curious. May I suggest that brings us back to there are many ways to skin a cat.

Speaker 2:

We shouldn't be skinning cats, man, that's so uncouth.

Speaker 1:

But I don't even know where the saying comes from.

Speaker 2:

Sorry, it just came to mind I wonder where all these phrases about cats come from. Weren't cats, the first animal that humans domesticated. I think the ancient Egyptians did right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, they're all hieroglyphics.

Speaker 2:

So why would we want the cat to be killed by its curiosity? Why would we skin it?

Speaker 1:

Leave the cats alone that's right, leave them alone. They were just going about their business before we came along. You know, they were here before us saber-toothed tiger and all of that stuff, and they have a mind of their own and I they.

Speaker 2:

They may be curious in a way that we don't recognize I, I think in that green room brett mentioned um earlier. You, you made that comment that cats don't give a rat's ass. There we have another one. They don't give a rat's ass. There we have another one. They don't give a rat's ass about them. Rats, they're not really curious, they're just being cats. Well, maybe the way we show curiosity is nuanced, right. That is also maybe a function of culture. How do I express my curiosity? I come from a culture that is very literal and what you see is what you get in form of our communication, and you will notice my curiosity simply by the choice of words and the inflection of my tone. But other cultures might not be as overt in their curiosity. How do we entertain that? How we engage with that Again, a function of culture, and your curiosity, your willingness to learn about this, will lead you to success. That's what we started out with. You ain't got nothing without that curiosity?

Speaker 1:

Absolutely not. We are curious, by the way, about what you think about this and we will definitely listen to understand and we want to learn from you. Tell us what your thoughts are about curiosity, how it shows up in your culture, how you have learned to practice this deft skill of questioning in places. If you are a cultural coach, mentor or trainer, in whatever capacity, if you're in a business and you've got people around you, how do you, uh, stay curious about the differences that you see? We're very curious to know, very curious to know, and the way you do that is you subscribe, you hit the bell, as christian said earlier, and and listen to us on the podcast, um, on every, all the best. Listen to us on the podcast on every all the best platforms out there, all the best.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

They're the only ones that would let us in, you know, would be the best Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

And let me close this with one more quote that includes curiosity and cats. It's by Mark Twain a man who carries a cat by the tail learn something he can learn in no other way. There we go, okay.

Speaker 1:

Well, let that sit in the soul and ruminate just for a little bit and see what that means. And by the way, I'm interested if anybody knows why do we have all these things about cats anyway skinning?

Speaker 2:

cats and killing cats, and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

I'd be very interested to know Google's boring. I'd be very interested to know Google's boring. I'd rather hear from folks out there. So thank you again. Good to see you again, mate, for another week, and we will see you in the next episode of Two Chaps. Many Cultures, where too much culture is barely enough.

Speaker 2:

Ciao for now. Meow, meow, meow Meow. Ciao for now.