Two Chaps - Many Cultures

Unlocking Global Business Success through Internal and External Partnerships: Interview with Chief People Officer Addie Johnsen

• Christian Höferle and Brett Parry • Season 1 • Episode 5

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Strategically establishing and sustaining company culture is no easy feat for any organization. It can be quite a challenge particularly for smaller and midsize enterprises (SMEs). Lean human resource departments in global companies have to get creative when building and developing effective teams across international branch offices. 

Meet Addie Johnsen, who serves as Chief People Officer at Aperian, and discover the profound influence of cultural intelligence on global operations. Addie has experienced the highs and lows of foreign assignments, and now shares her experience of navigating the intricate dances of corporate culture in her role. Grasp the importance of understanding cultural nuances as Addie reveals how her role transcends the traditional spectrum of HR, advocating for a deeper cultural understanding within the workforce.

We reflect on the international corporate landscape, and discuss the importance of forging durable partnerships with vendors and service providers, a cornerstone for organizational success across national and international borders. With an impressive 18-year tenure, Addie offers valuable insights into aligning with partners who resonate with your company's values, and the subtle balance of nurturing workplace friction that spurs growth without compromising phycological safety.
We also challenge the concept of hiring "for cultural fit," proposing a fresh lens to view the so-called "soft skills" — now rebranded as critical skills — as indispensable competencies for collaboration and innovation in today's diverse work environments.
Join us for this episode that celebrates the human element as the driving force in business.

𝙏𝙬𝙤 𝘾𝙝𝙖𝙥𝙨 – 𝙈𝙖𝙣𝙮 𝘾𝙪𝙡𝙩𝙪𝙧𝙚𝙨 is the world’s #1 show on the business of culture and the culture of business. Christian Höferle and Brett Parry ponder culture in short bursts and deep dives, featuring your questions and comments related to culture, business, and personal growth.

Be sure to check out and subscribe to our YouTube channel for even more great content: https://www.youtube.com/@TwoChapsManyCultures

Visit https://theculturemastery.com/ for more information about the skills for working in a global context.

The music on this episode is provided courtesy of Sepalot.
“Duum Diip” - Artist: Sepalot - Label: Eskapaden - Copyright control



Brett Parry:

Have you ever been around somebody who you just look at and go how do you do everything you do every day? Well, maybe Christian and I have got partners like that. We look at them and go how do you do it, these people that tend to just make everything happen on their own? Well, we're going to talk to a special guest today that does exactly that across the globe. How about that? You thought you're an overachiever. Let's get into that. The globe.

Speaker 2:

How about that? You thought you're an overachiever. Let's get into that. Stick around. Welcome to 2Chaps. Many Cultures. In an increasingly globally connected world, it is vital to possess the essential skills of cultural intelligence. Listen along as we present the topics, tips and strategies you can use to develop the power of cultural understanding in your personal and professional life. Here are your hosts Christian Huffler and Brett Parry.

Brett Parry:

Yes, welcome back to Chaps Many Cultures, where too much culture, too much culture is barely enough for me and this bloke beside us. Now, of course, don't forget, we're going to just ask you, as we always do, to subscribe to our YouTube channel, and now we've got our wonderful podcast. Of course, we always say that if you don't like looking at us, you can bear listening to us. Yes, do that. Put the headphones on and let us lull you to sleep with our dulcet tones, if that's what makes you tick. But subscribe to both and all of them and share it with your friends. Click on that bell.

Brett Parry:

Today we are going to talk to somebody who is an absolute star, rock star, known in the field as an absolute rock star when it comes to doing things as a one person operation. This sense, as I said in the intro, these people around us tend to do a lot on their own and make a lot of things happen and, at the same time, make a lot of people feel really great. We are absolutely honored to welcome the wonderful Addie Johnson to the Two Chaps Mini Culture Stage. Welcome, welcome welcome.

Addie Johnsen:

It's so good to see you both. Thank you so much, Boy. That's quite the introduction. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Brett Parry:

Well, it's an honor to have you, addie, and thank you for joining us. We took a couple of chances to get this done, and we also. You know I'm going to be full disclosure. I've known addy a lot and before we went live here she reminded me of how long we've known each other and, uh and um, you know it only shows on your face, though, brett?

Christian Höferle:

I don't know yeah we haven't aged at all.

Brett Parry:

I'm not sure how that math works no, no, that's right, uh, but it you know to me who's somebody who knows you and uh and absolutely has the deepest respect and love for what you do and how you make people feel. Tell us a little bit about Addie Johnson and how you got to where you are right now.

Addie Johnsen:

Sure, well, again, I'm so happy to be here and, brett, that feeling is very mutual with working with you for many years, and you as well, christian, through our work here at Aperion. In terms of my background, I am originally from Southern California. I'm American, as you can hear through my accent. I was really fortunate to grow up in a diverse community and diverse high school. I was able to spend a lot of time in community services through volunteer work, my first couple of jobs, and that led me to Boston University where I went for undergrad. I was really interested initially in psychology but realized pretty quickly I did not want to be a psychiatrist or a psychologist. But boy, I like history. So that transitioned into studying international relations and I shared with Christian.

Addie Johnsen:

I absolutely fell in love with the German language early on and, I know, took advantage of the opportunity to go to Dresden, germany, for study abroad. While I was there I made every single mistake in the book humanly possible for an American. In Germany I had the best of times, had the worst of times and everything in between. I came back to school and was taking a class, an international business class, studying organizations that had set up businesses in new countries and failed, one of which was Walmart in Germany. I visited one of the last Walmarts that was open before they closed and understanding the importance of culture that these companies did not take that into account when opening and operating their businesses.

Addie Johnsen:

So that same semester I saw an internship flyer come through from a company at that time, eaton Consulting Group, which is now folded into a period about a company that was actually helping people go through these transitions.

Addie Johnsen:

But it didn't actually have to be so hard to live, work and thrive in another culture and how to help organizations take that culture into account and actually be successful. So I joined the company, coming up on 18 years this fall as an intern, sourcing subject matter experts from around the world to join our programs and share what it's actually like to live and work in another country. So through that experience sourcing and interviewing and really getting to pick people's brains about why things are different, how that's showing up in their lives and in their work, realizing some of those functions are actually HR functions the interviewing, the recruiting, the relationship building, the life cycle of working with at that time contractors life cycle of working with at that time contractors over 18 years it's often to my current role now as a chief people officer, as a department of one, technically in the human resource function, and that's where I am today.

Christian Höferle:

I want to dive right into this, because this is a distinction that I've heard you talk about before. There's articles with interviews with you trying to clarify the terminology. So you're a chief people officer and you said that's somewhat of an hr function, but would you agree that the terminology is interchangeable or would you insist on chief people officer and, if so, why?

Addie Johnsen:

Oh, thanks, christian. Oh, that's a good question. We very intentionally as an organization did shift this department into people operations and we started to see that shift at other organizations in the last five, six years in particular, and that's a large part because of the use of technology that has allowed us to automate so many of the more traditional HR administration processes. So people operations takes a larger umbrella underneath that is the HR administration, the legal compliance, where that's a whole field of expertise for folks, and you also have talent acquisition, which is another set of disciplines under that umbrella, and people operations takes it kind of includes both of those functions, but the focus really is on the people part and developing the people. So with the use of technology and really great partners're really able to be in more of a strategic place and working with senior leadership and focusing on the overall people operations, not just the HR functions or just the talent acquisition portion.

Christian Höferle:

Thanks for that clarification. Now, brett said you're a. What was the term? You used? One person, one person, people. So you're a department of one in a small mid-sized enterprise. Um, how do you have a seat at the table? How do you have a voice that justifies the c in your job acronym? The chief are. Do you feel like you are having that leverage within the leadership team?

Addie Johnsen:

I do and as to why, I think there's a few reasons for that. I think one really speaks to Aparian as an organization. You know what we do. It's focused on people. It's focused on how we can understand ourselves better, understand others, and what we can do to actually bridge those boundaries. And that's work that we do, of course, for our clients, but it's work that we have to do internally with each other, because we are smaller, because we're so globally diverse. So to have a people-focused individual on the executive team is absolutely critical to what we do as an organization and how we will be successful in this space. Our people are our number one resource. They're our heart. It's why we do what we do. So I have full support from our management team and executive team to have the people, the human centered approach that we have.

Brett Parry:

And for those who don't know, aperion used to be Aperion Global and you mentioned the previous iteration of the company. But the company today and its evolution Tell us a little bit about the company and its founders. Of course, christian and I have partnered with Aperion and have a good relationship. They're good fortune to do so. Probably know a lot of the story, but for those who don't, tell us a little bit about Appirion itself.

Addie Johnsen:

Sure, we are coming up upon our 35-year anniversary next year, which is really exciting. The industry and the field itself, as you both know, has evolved so much over the last three, four decades. We were started by our founders, ted and Ernie, on understanding and seeing the need to better understand differences between Japan and the US. That's where our foundations were. How can we support organizations to understand themselves better and understand the markets and the people that they were working with to be successful? There was always this deep connection to again understand yourselves, understanding others, and what do you actually do with that knowledge? How do you actually bridge those gaps and those boundaries?

Addie Johnsen:

That is still true today. That's still the work that we're doing today. Obviously, so much has evolved today. Obviously, so much has evolved. Back in the 90s it was VHS tapes being filmed by our founders at the local airport, whereas today it's obviously more of a global reach through our platform, through training, consulting as well. So the modalities and how we work with our clients has evolved, but the absolute heart and mission of what we do again, that human-centered approach has always stayed the same.

Christian Höferle:

We work a lot with customers who would classify an SME as a small or mid-sized enterprise where their organizational structures might be similar to that of a parian. Your role is a one-person department, or maybe a two to three-person department where they have to be jacks or jills of all trades in that department or have good external partners to help them fulfill these functions. And I've also read about Aparian, and I think it was in an interview you gave Was it on Forbes or Fortune, I forget which platform it was on and we'll make sure to post that link to that interview in the show notes. You said since the parent is a training company at heart, all of the employees go through the training right, which is, I think, a fantastic approach because you eat your own cooking. Now, going from your 18 years of experience of doing what you do in a mid-sized organization, what would you advise people in your role in companies that are not training companies, who manufacture something, who provide a service, who have some other market solution that makes them a very successful enterprise in their field?

Addie Johnsen:

What is the advice you would give people officers in those adjacent fields or our client companies? I think the importance of having really amazing partners. I'm technically a department of one on the org chart, but in reality there's so many folks that I rely heavily on and, of course, our line managers or other management team members, hr functions and finance functions. We're best friends. So I work with so many critical partners inside my own organization that I could not do what I do without them and their support and encouragement. But external partners are so important, having a good understanding of their values and if they align with your own.

Addie Johnsen:

A great example for one of our partners is Bamboo HR. They're a human resource information system. Their mission is to set people free to do good work, get the administrative stuff out of your way so you can actually focus on people. Yes, when I talked to their first representative, I thought wait, but that's what I want to do. That's exactly what gets me excited about my job like help people do their best work. So to partner with a company that has the similar values is so important, and they take really great care of their employees as well. Every single person you come into contact with is excited to help their team. They have excellent reviews online. They have great benefits for their employees. So finding a partner with shared values is important, and happy employees engage think about.

Brett Parry:

Historically, I've always thought as a business owner. I've always thought if we can get rid of friction and maybe what you're referring to in terms of administration, that can be friction, that can be getting in the way of people being set free, as the bamboo bamboo folks say. However, you know, recently I was talking to executive and and she said to me actually the friction, some friction is necessary, because if there was too much kind of openness and everybody was fitted together, there'd be no challenging of ideas, there'd be no creativity, there'd be no, you know, innovation. How do you balance that, addy, as a professional who's worked with so many people from all around the globe, different identities, different backgrounds, different languages, all of these kind of things? Well, I mean, there's probably no secret sauce to it, but do you find, you know, when do you think the too much friction is enough, or too much friction is, or maybe you need a little bit more of kind of challenging ideas? Maybe it's a difficult question to answer, but I, you know, I'm interested in that.

Addie Johnsen:

Yeah, I, you. I'm so glad that you you identified that, brett, because the healthy friction, that that, that window where you're just outside your comfort zone but you still feel safe, that's where you're where, where you're growing right, that's where the growth is coming, that's where you have an opportunity to check in on yourself what am I learning, where am I at, where can I go? And you just don't tend to get that sort of self-reflection or challenge if you're constantly in that, that safe zone. So that, just that it's a thin strip before you go too far and then you don't feel safe to take that risk. So to be able to have an atmosphere and a culture that is safe psychological safety obviously, is a really important topic.

Addie Johnsen:

I'm so glad that's something that's spoken about more openly now at organizations. How can you create channels and avenues for folks to raise some friction, to address some friction that's there in a way that feels safe for them and for others? Especially, as you called out, brett, when you have folks that are in different parts of the world, you have different work styles and cultural preferences, how you even address the friction and the conflict is going to be very different. So, having kind of different modalities, whether it's through one-on-one, it's close relationships, having a close partnership or ally in the workplace that can advocate for you, or general public forums where folks can raise questions.

Christian Höferle:

So having different ways for folks to lean into that friction in a way that's safe for them is really healthy now, before we get to that point where we ask ourselves in within a team whether it is safe or not safe to venture into the friction zone where we learn something new. Before we get to that, there is the process of bringing people together as teams. So you are also or you did that for a long, long time recruiting. You bring people into teams. So is there something and I know what my answer is to this, I'm a bit facetious about this. So we've heard a lot and read about for years about the cultural fit right in hiring. Do we hire for fit? Do we hire for skill? Do we hire for skill? Do we hire for both? Is there some in your experience? Is there such a thing as hiring for fit, or is that a myth?

Addie Johnsen:

I feel like the idea of of cultural fit was really growing, probably about a decade, maybe 10, 15 years ago, and that was the first time where you were hiring folks not the first time, I'm sure folks were certainly ahead of their times to be on the industry that you were looking not just what's on a resume and what skills they had, but what really would make them successful at your organization.

Addie Johnsen:

So you're starting to look at more what could be considered soft skills, how they will communicate, how they will work with others, can they exhibit the behaviors that will allow them to be successful at the organization. So when it first came out, cultural fit I think was really exciting, the big advancement in the field. But as the conversation has shifted and where we've all become much more evolved in the space of diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, the idea that you have this perfect model, cookie cutter cultural fit a candidate has to fit into this box that's been fitting in with the organization is actually really limiting box. That's been fitting in with the organization is actually really limiting, right, and it's leading or it can lead to you frankly hiring people just like you and just the way you act and think and behave. So it's a bit of a semantic shift, but the idea that you should be looking for cultural ad right. So folks that can contribute to your organization's culture, that can challenge you in a healthy way, encourage you to grow, inspire that's what you're looking for.

Christian Höferle:

So more of the add than but for a recruiter, that can be a very strategic approach. Then right, because you have to assess what element would add to what we currently have. We need to fill a position, or we're growing and we're adding people for certain roles, and if you're in charge of recruiting or if you're part of the company, now I saw my great colleague smile a little bit when you said the word soft skills two words right, let's call that two words, or yeah, um, sometimes it's a grimace when he hears that.

Brett Parry:

I know that, so I want to call I. I want to kind of bring that into the conversation. This definition of soft skills, which you know. For me and Christian definitely, who taught me this it really defines something that may be not as important. So how do you refocus that terminology in? Because what you're talking about there are critical skills, there are important skills, there are things that can make or break things an organization or the way that organizations work together. So how do you reframe that for people that are coming into an organization and make sure that they're aware that these people skills are important?

Addie Johnsen:

Yes, I'm so glad that you caught that and thank you, christian, for the nonverbal cue.

Addie Johnsen:

Yes exactly, I think again, the idea of culture and how that ties into soft skills. They haven't been a priority, they never were before. Right, you're looking at hard skills. What's on a resume? What software do you know? What technically can you do? And you're right, brett, like it is critical now, and that's what has me really excited for how the people operations space has evolved.

Addie Johnsen:

It really is seeing these skills that used to be soft as critical. You have to be able to collaborate with folks with different work styles. You have to be able to communicate effectively with folks in different regions functions. They're no longer nice to haves, they're absolutely critical. So what I'm seeing now, both internally in terms of, of course, recruitment and talent, but also externally with our clients, they see that as critical. Now, too, it's much more easy. It's easier now to learn a hard skill. There are a lot of free resources out there. There's a lot of really great ways to further your education, and the advances of technology can really help us in that space. So focusing on how to get those critical skills, what you used to know as soft skills, absolutely have to be a big focus for organizations moving forward to develop their talent, resources, their people. You have to have the focus on these critical skills because exactly that they're critical, and so it's helpful seeing that reflected in organizations' priorities now too.

Christian Höferle:

Now you've been in the game long enough to have experienced the up and down cycles in the industry or on the client side for services that companies like Aparian or our companies provide. I'm just experiencing this with one of my long-term clients, that they're going through a downward turn and they're letting people go. That would be my points of contact, our access points into the organization, whether it be in people, organization function or learning and development, or however you want to classify those organizational niches and it appears that these quote unquote softer functions have become less important on an operational level when it is all about meeting the margin goals and getting the bottom line straightened out now. So, in your experience, how have you been dealing with, and how has your organization been dealing with, these cyclical developments in the need for our services?

Addie Johnsen:

Yeah, that is an age-old challenge right within this industry and that is a challenge that hasn't gone away and probably will not, because you're right. When it comes down, between looking at your budgets and like, well, I either need to cut a software that my team needs to get their jobs done or I'm going to need to reduce my training and development budget, those are real options that clients need to look at and it makes it really really challenging For us. We've been fortunate to have really great champions and partners within our organizations that do have that same view that we do. That these are critical skills, and you can have fantastic software and hard skills, but if you're not able to collaborate, you're not able to communicate, you're not able to have a workplace that fosters inclusion and innovation. You're limited. You're only going to get so far.

Addie Johnsen:

So it is playing a little bit into the long game, not just short. Let's make the next six months of profit, but I need my workforce to continue to grow so that we can continue to be successful. Having close partnerships within these organizations to understand that is really helpful, but it is a real challenge. If that was an easier fix, boy, I'd love that. Let me know if you find one. That is a real challenge.

Brett Parry:

Well, one of the I guess the thing, the unique thing about Aperian and I guess one of the reasons I've always been very loyal and respectful of the founders and folks in the organization like you and I know Christian is too is that you have if we're going to talk about technology is a tool that's proprietary to Aperion, and I guess that's the difference right when you've got something like Globesmart, which is an online tool that people can use on a daily basis, but everybody that comes out of the organization and the people that work and partner with Aperion, like Christian and I, get to use that every day.

Brett Parry:

We use it in our DNA. It's the very essence of what we teach and maybe that is a bit of a help for a period. That's what's made it survive over 35 years of this success, layered, of course, or supported by the wonderful founders, ted and Ernie, and folks like you, addy, that have made this organization tick. We just want to thank you for coming along and sharing your knowledge and your insights and uh, here's to another 18 years of uh. Why are you laughing so much? This is, you know, like twice, if you're okay well.

Addie Johnsen:

Thank you both so much for having me. It was great to have this chat. It was good to see you both.

Brett Parry:

Well, thank you very much. Well, I'll leave you to sign it off, mate. What do you got to say? Anything to add?

Christian Höferle:

Well, I'm going to say first of all, again, thank you, addy, for taking time and I hope you all listened those of you who are in the people business there are no secret sauces. There are best practices, lessons learned and, yes, there might be times when it's challenging to do the work that we do. In the end, it's not the company who is or does something. It's the people within the company that make the stuff, that do the things, that let the company grow or succeed. And let's take care of our people.

Brett Parry:

Absolutely. Two Chaps Many Cultures. Don't forget again, subscribe, listen, do whatever you need to do to put us in front of you every day. Apologies in advance of that, but this is Two Chaps Many Cultures, again, where too much culture is barely enough, and we'll look forward to seeing you on our next episode next week. All the best, thanks, addy. Ciao for now, outro Music.